There's hardly a hardcore gamer alive who hasn't heard of the Red Ring of Death (RRoD), and its potential to inexplicably turn an Xbox 360 game console into a $300 doorstop. But though a multi-year investigation by journalist Dean Takahashi strongly suggests that the RRoD is the result of botched design decisions at Microsoft HQ -- and that Microsoft knowingly shipped defective product -- any lawsuit aimed at the RRoD currently only has Takahashi's reporting and the word of his anonymous sources to go on.
The RRoD, however, is not the only well-documented issue with the Xbox 360. For years, gamers have been wary of moving an Xbox 360 for fear that it will fatally scratch their game disc; and now, official Microsoft representatives have testified to the courts that not only did the company know about this phenomenon up to two months before launch, but also that Microsoft sold identically problematic drives back to consumers under the guise of a repair.
As part of a motion to approve the newly-consolidated disc-scratch class-action lawsuit brought last year, attorneys for plaintiff Luis Torres first argue a fairly large number of scientific facts based on the testimony of expert witness Dr. Michael Sidman, who believes that the Xbox 360's DVD drive spins much too fast and contains inadequate magnetic strength to hold the disc in place... but expert or no, we think you'll be much more interested in what Microsoft engineers had to say for themselves.
According to the deposition of Hiroo Umeno, a Microsoft program manager, the company knew about the issue as early as September 2005...
"This is ... information that we as a team, optical disc drive team, knew about. When we first discovered the problem in September or October, when we got a first report of disc movement, we knew this is what's causing the problem."
...and after investigating the issue further, rejected three possible solutions. (Please note that while the following passage is written by and biased towards lawyers for Torres, it is based on Umeno's deposition.)
Microsoft rejected a first solution, which would have increased the magnetic force of the disc holder, because it would allegedly interfere with the mechanism that opened and closed the disc tray (another consequence of Microsoft’s decision to use the tray-loading ODD design). Umeno Dep. 230:6-11; Sidman Dec. ¶ 56.
Microsoft rejected a second solution, which would have required slowing down game disc rotation speed to 8x, because it allegedly would increase the time it took for a game to load, and thus interfere with the game experience. Umeno Dep. 236:15-237:4; Sidman Dec. ¶ 52.
Microsoft rejected a third solution, installing “bumpers” (small soft patches routinely used in other consumer ODDs), because it was allegedly too expensive (at as little as 50¢ per machine) and impractical due to concerns about adhering the bumpers. Park Dep. 145:24-146:4; Umeno Dep. 228:13-230:5; see also Park Dep. Ex. 6 (Aug. 25, 2006 email from Park noting that with an aggregate price tag of “$35M to $75M” to install proposed bumpers, Microsoft’s bottom line wins out over the consumer) (Derry Dec. Ex. 11)
If this wasn't damning enough, there's the testimony of Jose Garcia to consider. According to Torres' lawyers, if one complains loudly enough about their discs getting scratched, Microsoft will offer to replace the Xbox's disc drive for a $100 fee -- with a replacement just as likely to scratch discs as the original. How does Jose Garcia, Microsoft head of Repair and Refurbishment, justify the unnecessary repair?
“…from a customer’s perspective, they’re getting a new device, and that improves customer satisfaction.”
As of April 2008, Microsoft manager Douglas Park estimates that they have had 55,000 complaints of scratched discs; as of May, Garcia estimates that the company has replaced over 7200 Xbox 360 disc drives based on these complaints.
To Microsoft's credit, they do print warnings in both the manual, and on stickers attached to the Xbox 360 itself, to not move the console with a disc in the drive. Yesterday evening, they provided the Seattle Tech Report with this statement:
Xbox 360 is designed so that it will not damage a game disc as long as the console is not moved while the disc is spinning," he said. "Too much movement of any game console, not just Xbox 360, can cause scratches on a disc. That's why we put a warning on the face of the disc tray, which the user has to physically remove before the initial use of the system. We also have warnings posted online and in hard copy instruction manuals.
While we have had some users contact us with concerns about scratched discs, it is less than one-half of 1% of the total Xbox 360 user base.
You can read the full court document in PDF form here.
As a person who has owned, over time, three 360s, all of which were placed in the same orientation in the same location and never touched during gameplay, and one of which scratched three discs in a two-month period, I'd have to say your unqualified judgments make you both idiots.
Whether you have moved your console while it's playing or not, the owner of the console should be given notice that doing something as harmless as switching the position of the console will scratch their discs. Previous consoles that were made to be played in several positions never scratched disks - so assuming that you can move your console in mid-play is not far-fetched.
I didn't move my Xbox 360 when I was playing Madden 09 but when I switched to play Grand Theft Auto, I had a ring around it and it couldn't be played anymore. When I tried to get an exchange at Gamestop, I was told that they don't exchange games with the ring on it. So post #1 and post #2, you guys are lucky. I didn't have that same luck and I'm not dumb enough to move my system while playing.
I have been battling with Microsoft since the 19th, when one of my games got gouged with a perfectly round ring. This was a replacement Xbox360 for the first one that died from the RRoD. This one is less than a year old! I did not move my console *at all* and it still etched up my game.
Had Xbox 360 for Christmas and 2 games already have scratch rings...Activision told me about this problem...and all I can get from Xbox is a robot or someone who can't really speak English well...well annoyed!
That's the biggest 'no surprise' of 2008. Microsoft rejects practical solutions for their own half-assed solutions in order to get the product to market before Sony. I hate to tell you this, Xbox 360 owners (of which I am one), this system is the biggest pile of shit ever released in the history of consoles. People are happy with the response time to sending in their console, but so what? Why do they have to send it in in the first place? That's really the point.
Microsoft should really stick with making broken operating systems instead of electronics.
It is January 28,2009 and my kids got their XBOX360 for Christmas in 2008, just a little over a month ago, and I have had to purchase 2 Halo3 games already because of scratches....1 month, 3days and 2 of the same games...THAT IS RIDICULOUS! There should be some accountability held by Microsoft for a less than stellar product that I had to fork over a good amount of money to purchase. I am not a happy individual with this product and I would not advise anyone to purchase an Xbox360 unless they want to throw good money away!
I bought my first 360 on Dec. 06' it etched a perfect ring into our game. We never moved the console from the time of first installation. Next it got the RRod.
They repaired it for free since my system was only two months old. It has not had any problems since.
I purchased another 360 used for $130.00 and have not had any problems. I figured why pay for a new one that might have to be sent in when I could just buy a used one and an extended warranty for $100.00 with a total sum still less than a new one.
I haven't had my XBox 360 for over 2 weeks and it already etched a ring around my GTA4 game, which I JUST brought 2 days ago. This is outrageous. I mean, I don't move my console at all, I don't even stand it up on it's side. It lays flat. Always has because I was afraid something like that would happen. I guess you just can't escape microsucks stupidity.
this problem started 10 years ago, sonys first cd walkman used to scratch discs but they found a solution by putting a littlerubber bumper around the lens
December 16th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Wait a second, who the hell moves their console while it is currently spinning a disc? Are you retarded?
December 16th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
Idiots do, Mike. And never underestimate the number of idiots in the world who are ready to sue.
December 17th, 2008 at 10:26 am
As a person who has owned, over time, three 360s, all of which were placed in the same orientation in the same location and never touched during gameplay, and one of which scratched three discs in a two-month period, I'd have to say your unqualified judgments make you both idiots.
Edit: added my name
December 17th, 2008 at 10:47 am
Whether you have moved your console while it's playing or not, the owner of the console should be given notice that doing something as harmless as switching the position of the console will scratch their discs. Previous consoles that were made to be played in several positions never scratched disks - so assuming that you can move your console in mid-play is not far-fetched.
December 17th, 2008 at 11:03 am
I didn't move my Xbox 360 when I was playing Madden 09 but when I switched to play Grand Theft Auto, I had a ring around it and it couldn't be played anymore. When I tried to get an exchange at Gamestop, I was told that they don't exchange games with the ring on it. So post #1 and post #2, you guys are lucky. I didn't have that same luck and I'm not dumb enough to move my system while playing.
December 26th, 2008 at 1:46 am
Yea maybe, but my rock band game got knocked over not even 45 degrees and it got scratched and i never got a sticker or watever.
December 29th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
I have been battling with Microsoft since the 19th, when one of my games got gouged with a perfectly round ring. This was a replacement Xbox360 for the first one that died from the RRoD. This one is less than a year old! I did not move my console *at all* and it still etched up my game.
January 8th, 2009 at 8:50 am
Had Xbox 360 for Christmas and 2 games already have scratch rings...Activision told me about this problem...and all I can get from Xbox is a robot or someone who can't really speak English well...well annoyed!
January 10th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
That's the biggest 'no surprise' of 2008. Microsoft rejects practical solutions for their own half-assed solutions in order to get the product to market before Sony. I hate to tell you this, Xbox 360 owners (of which I am one), this system is the biggest pile of shit ever released in the history of consoles. People are happy with the response time to sending in their console, but so what? Why do they have to send it in in the first place? That's really the point.
Microsoft should really stick with making broken operating systems instead of electronics.
January 28th, 2009 at 9:52 am
It is January 28,2009 and my kids got their XBOX360 for Christmas in 2008, just a little over a month ago, and I have had to purchase 2 Halo3 games already because of scratches....1 month, 3days and 2 of the same games...THAT IS RIDICULOUS! There should be some accountability held by Microsoft for a less than stellar product that I had to fork over a good amount of money to purchase. I am not a happy individual with this product and I would not advise anyone to purchase an Xbox360 unless they want to throw good money away!
February 26th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
I bought my first 360 on Dec. 06' it etched a perfect ring into our game. We never moved the console from the time of first installation. Next it got the RRod.
They repaired it for free since my system was only two months old. It has not had any problems since.
I purchased another 360 used for $130.00 and have not had any problems. I figured why pay for a new one that might have to be sent in when I could just buy a used one and an extended warranty for $100.00 with a total sum still less than a new one.
March 2nd, 2009 at 6:05 pm
I haven't had my XBox 360 for over 2 weeks and it already etched a ring around my GTA4 game, which I JUST brought 2 days ago. This is outrageous. I mean, I don't move my console at all, I don't even stand it up on it's side. It lays flat. Always has because I was afraid something like that would happen. I guess you just can't escape microsucks stupidity.
March 14th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
Is there a way to locate someone locally to try this?
May 20th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
this problem started 10 years ago, sonys first cd walkman used to scratch discs but they found a solution by putting a littlerubber bumper around the lens
May 27th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
the bumpers only cost 50 cents per console....
and microsoft couldn't do that, Cheap Skates!!!