I'm sure enough time has passed that I should really just let this go, but I suppose I'm just a hopelessly bitter individual. I can't help it; whenever I look over at my giant shelf full of fantastic PS2 titles, or read about a great title like Persona 4 coming out for the lingering system, I look under my television at the shiny PS3 that won't play any of them, and it makes me grumble.
We all know, of course, that in trying to keep the PS3 cost-effective, backwards compatibility was a feature that Sony felt they needed to abandon. Still, as a gamer who still cares about these things, I found it interesting when I was shown, at CES, just how this had been achieved. While exploring the Digital Experience! event at the Mirage, I visited the Rambus booth, where a pair of PS3 motherboards were on display.
As the helpful Rambus representatives explained to me, their business is the design and implementation of integrated memory and chips in various consumer electronics, including a particular Sony videogame console. They had helped Sony to create the original hardware for the PS3 launch hardware, and later, had also helped refine the PS3 motherboard into a more efficient and streamlined system.
In this photo, the Rambus rep is pointing to a launch-era PS3 motherboard; that particular area on the left is essentially a PS2, contained within the PS3 architecture -- the fabled "Emotion Engine." The board above it is a much more recent iteration of the PS3 hardware. You can see, it's quite a bit more compact, made smaller by the conspicuous removal of the leftmost portion of the board. What do you suppose is missing?
Looks kind of like it was removed with a hacksaw, doesn't it? This is why your PS3 can't play Persona 4 or Amplitude or Tekken. And now you know!
I feel for you, Jesse. I bought the 60GB PS3, which fortunately plays my PS2 games just fine. It was only later that I found out Sony had decided not to include the backwards capability in their 80GB model, as was originally planned.
Maybe you can find a "bricked by 2.40" 60GB and reformat the HDD......
Or, (wishful thinking), maybe Sony will release a firmware update that enables backwards compatability. Yeah.....sure.............
Well.... this is something that I already knew, but luckily for me, I have a launch 60GB PS3 with the Emotion Engine chip for full compatibility will PS1 and PS2 games.
But what about the PS3's that used Software Emulation for Backwards compatibility, like the 80GB PS3 bundled with Motorstorm and like the 80GB PS3 bundled with MGS4? Those PS3's that used Software Emulation for Backwards compatibility didn't have an Emotion Engine chip in them, so I think there's a little bit more to why the PS3 doesn't have Backwards compatibility now than just no Emotion Engine.
I really don't think that Backwards compatibility via Software Emulation was a really significant cost in the manufacturing process, but I guess even if it was a small cost, Sony cut it out in hopes to save as much as they could, even if it was just a dollar or two dollars saved per console.
Most people that want to buy a PS3 more than likely have PS2's, so it's not that much of a big deal to me.
for real, the idiot wrote this but toally forgot who dominated the last gen...if you still dont have a ps2, your a fuckin imbecile... all this shit about lookin at ur ps3 and knowing it cant play persona 4? fuck do you know about persona 4 if you dont even have a ps2? fuckin loser, quit writing articles, you suck at em. i can write an article about how i fucked your mom and add more credible information then what you just presented... pathetic
I've always wondered what the hell was going on with the innards between the launch SKUs and the more recent ones. I know the Emotion Engine is gone, but... wow. It's almost literally as you say - hacksawed off. I'm still confused as to how the "mid-point" models do their software emulation, though, and as to why the newer ones are incapable of such a feat.
The PS3's with software emulation still have the graphics synthesizer (PS2 graphics card). The software emulation is only for the emotion engine, not the graphics card.
hey just to let you folks know the ps3 is a "supercomputer". All you have to do is make it so the ps3 can read the program. And puff you have emulation on your console but I am sure sony is going the long way around it and adding some kind of piracy prevention.
OK what is wrong with you people i still have my PS2 to play my PS2 games and my PS3 to play my PS3 games. Stop your whining because if you have PS2 games you obviously at one time had a PS2. So just shut up and play them on the damn PS2 you big whiny babies and get a job and move out of your parents house too you oxygen leaches.
All those people hurling vitriolic bile at anyone for wanting to use their PS3 to play PS1/PS2 games need to stop, breathe and think.
The PS3 UPSCALES PS1/PS2 GAMES TO HD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Having 1 console means fewer cables hanging off the back of your TV.
It means you have fewer boxes cluttering up your AV setup.
It is just simply better to have one console rather than 3, I still have my original grey Playstation but it's in the attic where it belongs.
BACK OFF MORONS!
There is simply no need to be so unmitigatingly offensive, and mum's are sacred (NEVER bring a person's mum into a discussion to insult them, because you will lose the argument and your credibility right there)
As stated before on other posts, the European launch PS3 (80 Gb) was backwards compatible, without the Emotion Engine.
Massahud says that the PS2 with "software compatibility" still has the PS2 graphic card... can't confirm that (I think it wasn't officialy confirmed by Sony or proved by anyone)...
So, sorry Gamecyte. Poor - or at least incomplete - article...
well, i see both sides. i understand wanting to play all playstation games on one system with fewer clutter BUT even though the ps3 "upscales" the first two playstation's games, they do not look hd, they look better on the ps2 and it will hardly crash =)
ACTUALLY IT IS THOSE THAT DO NOT HAVE BECOS' THEY CANNOT AFORD A PS3 THAT IS THE CLEAR DIRT, PRICKS HERE IN THIS COMMENTS SECTION. rEAD AGAIN. aCTUALLY THEY SHOULD CRAWL BACK WHERE THEY CAME FROM, THEIR MOTHERS VAGINAS AS THE SEEM TO LIKE TO SAY. MAYBE THEY HAVE TRIED BUT RATHER GOT A WHACK ON THE HEAD. THEREFORE THE LOW CLASS COMMENTS IS ALL THEY COULD MUSTER.
1) Many PS3 "owners" don't realize that not all PS3s can go backwards compatible. There isn't some magic download on PSN that lets every PS3 play PS2 games.
2) Most people don't seem to understand the benefits of playing PS2 games on a PS3. Like someone else said: less clutter (one console, one set of controllers, one set of cables), more entertainment center space (if I hooked a PS2 up it would need to stay on the middle of the floor), and it upscales PS2 games (IE they look better than they'd ever look on a PS2).
How you could keep complaining that people need to get with the new-gen of HD gaming and then laugh at someone who wants to play older games with improved visuals is beyond me.
(PS, Nuno, that's incorrect. You probably heard that at a PS fansite or something.)
This is what I believe. I think Sony did need to take out the PS2 innards of the PS3 to save costs. Could they have added software emulation with about a 90% PS2 game play rate just like PS1 games? Or maybe even slowly add games by software updates like the 360 does? Of coarse, but then they would be cutting into their still selling PS2 console. You know, the one that is actually MAKING them money. Why lose money on both fronts? This is of coarse the reason. They want to maximize profits from their PS2 line while losing as little as possible from their PS3 line and in this case probably from their overall losses in the video game market.
I was fortunate enough to receive a replacement PS3 with the emotion engine in it. This happen after my launch 20 gig gave up on me, I sent it for repairs and to my surprise Sony sent me a new one instead of repairing my old one. This was 2 months ago, so somehow I think Sony has launch systems on stock in case they need to send a replacement.
i am so glad that i bought my PS3 when i did, cause it allowd me to sell my PS2 and free some space around the Entertainment center. My PS3 is backwards compatable. I've read through alot of these user inputs and i just feel sorry for all those ppl who dont have backwards comp. I have to disagree with Scouse007. While selling my PS2 to someone i barely knew did free up space... i became heart broken. It was like giving a piece of my heart away to some stranger. I will forever miss you PS2. Same goes for the Nintendo 64 and Ocarina of Time. What a stupid mistake. I would suggest that gamers hang on to there consoles. 1 day down the road they wont regret it.
I got the older 80gig. PS3 with mgs4 (amazing game btw) so I still play some ps2 games on them but even if my PS3 didn't have BC I wouldnt necessarily care as I'm already overloaded with the PS3's line-up which wont even pick up speed till killzone2 comes out. YAY for lots 'o' games.
i love games. can we all at least agree with that statement.
People were complaining about backwards compatibility, and seeing as I noticed a "magic download", I thought that mentioning that might help a few people. I did not say it would work for everyone.
2) In response to Skychrono (01/09/2009):
I need to sign back on and find out exactly where it is - I don't remember where I saw it, but I know I did see it. I will check this evening, and post the location tomorrow morning.
3) In response to saminseattle (01/09/2009):
Yeah, I love games too. It seems alot of otherwise intelligent people have forgotten the hobby we all share a healthy interest in.
1) Go to Add-Ons
2) Disc-Based Game Add-Ons
3) Scroll down to #34 "PS2 SYSTEM DATA"
Description: PS2 System Data allows PlayStation2 software requiring hard disk installation to be played on PLAYSTATION 3.
4) This is FREE
5) Cannot be used on 40 GB models
Evidently, this is for games requiring HDD installation - like FF or RE - I thought this software would allow you to play PS1/PS2 games on PS3 and it does, just not for ALL.
My mistake. I don't remember seeing anything similar, but I'll double check. My apologies to Skychrono, and thanks for checking behind me.
Sorry guys, I was wrong - the only download I could find was for PS2 system data for HDD, not a firmware update-type thing that will allow you to play any PS2 game.
this is why i refuse to buy a PS3 anymore, I never wanted to because up til now they really haven't had anything other than MGS4 worth playing on that I couldn't get for my 360. I almost bought one a few months ago, but I'm glad I didn't. Backwards compatibility is not only a space saver but it's in my opinion one of those moves by a company that says "thanks for buying all of our games and supporting us up til this point, when you go buy the next gen systems coming out...you'll be able to play your old favorites without having to keep the only system around" throwing that away is like a spit in the face to the consumers, Sony was my favorite console company for a while but no more.
I can seriously say now without BC...I refuse to buy a PS3 until release of the FF VII remake is announced...hopefully with a bundle.
PS2 games are better than PS3 games anyway by far.
You guys are all messed up ... all this hostility, can't wait for sony to put out PS4 so you guys can all go kill yourselfs to guarantee compatability with PS1 PS2 and PS3 ...
Sony says thank you and give us your money ...
I'm sure enough time has passed that I should really just let this go, but I suppose I'm just a hopelessly bitter individual. I can't help it; whenever I look over at my giant shelf full of fantastic PS2 titles, or read about a great title like Persona 4 coming out for the lingering system, I look under my television at the shiny PS3 that won't play any of them, and it makes me grumble.
In this photo, the Rambus rep is pointing to a launch-era PS3 motherboard; that particular area on the left is essentially a PS2, contained within the PS3 architecture -- the fabled "Emotion Engine." The board above it is a much more recent iteration of the PS3 hardware. You can see, it's quite a bit more compact, made smaller by the conspicuous removal of the leftmost portion of the board. What do you suppose is missing?
January 8th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
I feel for you, Jesse. I bought the 60GB PS3, which fortunately plays my PS2 games just fine. It was only later that I found out Sony had decided not to include the backwards capability in their 80GB model, as was originally planned.
Maybe you can find a "bricked by 2.40" 60GB and reformat the HDD......
Or, (wishful thinking), maybe Sony will release a firmware update that enables backwards compatability. Yeah.....sure.............
--
Røb
January 8th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
My biggest fear is that my launch era 60 gig will break and I'll have to swap it for a new model.
Well that and velociraptors.
January 8th, 2009 at 9:37 pm
Well.... this is something that I already knew, but luckily for me, I have a launch 60GB PS3 with the Emotion Engine chip for full compatibility will PS1 and PS2 games.
But what about the PS3's that used Software Emulation for Backwards compatibility, like the 80GB PS3 bundled with Motorstorm and like the 80GB PS3 bundled with MGS4? Those PS3's that used Software Emulation for Backwards compatibility didn't have an Emotion Engine chip in them, so I think there's a little bit more to why the PS3 doesn't have Backwards compatibility now than just no Emotion Engine.
I really don't think that Backwards compatibility via Software Emulation was a really significant cost in the manufacturing process, but I guess even if it was a small cost, Sony cut it out in hopes to save as much as they could, even if it was just a dollar or two dollars saved per console.
Most people that want to buy a PS3 more than likely have PS2's, so it's not that much of a big deal to me.
January 8th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
for real, the idiot wrote this but toally forgot who dominated the last gen...if you still dont have a ps2, your a fuckin imbecile... all this shit about lookin at ur ps3 and knowing it cant play persona 4? fuck do you know about persona 4 if you dont even have a ps2? fuckin loser, quit writing articles, you suck at em. i can write an article about how i fucked your mom and add more credible information then what you just presented... pathetic
January 8th, 2009 at 10:50 pm
Sasa k...
Wow... Umm... Wow!!! Do you kiss your mother with that mouth? Or just your daddy?
BTW, do you know anything about Persona 4? I bet you only know about Persona 1 and 2, because you only own a PS1! If even that!!!
Little Nazi Pre-pubescent Child!
Oh, and this article was rather good. For the longest time I thought it was only a software issue, not a hardware issue. Thanks Jesse!
January 8th, 2009 at 11:16 pm
Yyyyyeah. I guess you showed me there, champ.
For the record, of course I still have my PS2. This is not the point. You're doing it wrong.
January 9th, 2009 at 12:00 am
The European launch PS3 had backwards compatibility and no emotion engine.
January 9th, 2009 at 12:31 am
I've always wondered what the hell was going on with the innards between the launch SKUs and the more recent ones. I know the Emotion Engine is gone, but... wow. It's almost literally as you say - hacksawed off. I'm still confused as to how the "mid-point" models do their software emulation, though, and as to why the newer ones are incapable of such a feat.
Sasa k et al, troll harder.
January 9th, 2009 at 12:53 am
Sasa K is my new best friend.
January 9th, 2009 at 1:36 am
ps3 is fuckin crap, like yor moms vagina
look at how low we drop to deepthroat our consoles
cut the crap please
January 9th, 2009 at 1:54 am
The PS3's with software emulation still have the graphics synthesizer (PS2 graphics card). The software emulation is only for the emotion engine, not the graphics card.
January 9th, 2009 at 2:00 am
I knew this long time:/
My friend was saying they could add a download content support so it could allow you to play ps2 but I denied it.
That's why I'm still waiting for the price to drop down further.
A lot of features were removed in the new ps3, the reason why I don't want to pay £299 for it:/
January 9th, 2009 at 3:35 am
hey just to let you folks know the ps3 is a "supercomputer". All you have to do is make it so the ps3 can read the program. And puff you have emulation on your console but I am sure sony is going the long way around it and adding some kind of piracy prevention.
January 9th, 2009 at 4:45 am
I'm glad I bought my 60gb PS3 at launch.
January 9th, 2009 at 5:08 am
Hey dummies, why would you buy a PS3 to play PS2 or PS1 its then next gen in HD gaming! Go buy them at a yard sale for $7 bucks A-holes
January 9th, 2009 at 5:09 am
Sony will release that software when they stop making the PS2.
Jesse,
Get over youself and stay in the Next Gen. There are plenty of games out to fancy your pants. If don't want to venture then it's on you.
January 9th, 2009 at 5:11 am
OK what is wrong with you people i still have my PS2 to play my PS2 games and my PS3 to play my PS3 games. Stop your whining because if you have PS2 games you obviously at one time had a PS2. So just shut up and play them on the damn PS2 you big whiny babies and get a job and move out of your parents house too you oxygen leaches.
January 9th, 2009 at 5:16 am
A lot of my ps2 games crash on my launch 60gig ps3. Plus these days I find I just don't play my ps2 games at all. Dodgy graphics 'n all that...
January 9th, 2009 at 5:54 am
All those people hurling vitriolic bile at anyone for wanting to use their PS3 to play PS1/PS2 games need to stop, breathe and think.
The PS3 UPSCALES PS1/PS2 GAMES TO HD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Having 1 console means fewer cables hanging off the back of your TV.
It means you have fewer boxes cluttering up your AV setup.
It is just simply better to have one console rather than 3, I still have my original grey Playstation but it's in the attic where it belongs.
BACK OFF MORONS!
There is simply no need to be so unmitigatingly offensive, and mum's are sacred (NEVER bring a person's mum into a discussion to insult them, because you will lose the argument and your credibility right there)
January 9th, 2009 at 7:02 am
As stated before on other posts, the European launch PS3 (80 Gb) was backwards compatible, without the Emotion Engine.
Massahud says that the PS2 with "software compatibility" still has the PS2 graphic card... can't confirm that (I think it wasn't officialy confirmed by Sony or proved by anyone)...
So, sorry Gamecyte. Poor - or at least incomplete - article...
January 9th, 2009 at 7:19 am
well, i see both sides. i understand wanting to play all playstation games on one system with fewer clutter BUT even though the ps3 "upscales" the first two playstation's games, they do not look hd, they look better on the ps2 and it will hardly crash =)
January 9th, 2009 at 7:29 am
You do know that you can download software from the PlayStation Store to allow you to play PS2 games on your PS3, right?
January 9th, 2009 at 7:42 am
Games do NOT look better on the PS2 over the PS3.
They simply do not.
January 9th, 2009 at 9:02 am
Judging from this comments section it is clear that PS3 gamers are a group of people I would never want to be associated with.
January 9th, 2009 at 9:31 am
ACTUALLY IT IS THOSE THAT DO NOT HAVE BECOS' THEY CANNOT AFORD A PS3 THAT IS THE CLEAR DIRT, PRICKS HERE IN THIS COMMENTS SECTION. rEAD AGAIN. aCTUALLY THEY SHOULD CRAWL BACK WHERE THEY CAME FROM, THEIR MOTHERS VAGINAS AS THE SEEM TO LIKE TO SAY. MAYBE THEY HAVE TRIED BUT RATHER GOT A WHACK ON THE HEAD. THEREFORE THE LOW CLASS COMMENTS IS ALL THEY COULD MUSTER.
SICK POOR BROKE SODS'THEY ARE.
January 9th, 2009 at 9:32 am
You actually have the gall to be judgemental based on what you read on the Internet?
January 9th, 2009 at 10:07 am
What self respecting game journalist didn't grab a BC PS3? Those were available for a long time, just recently as 6 months ago.
January 9th, 2009 at 11:10 am
This comments are hilarious.
I have learned two things, though:
1) Many PS3 "owners" don't realize that not all PS3s can go backwards compatible. There isn't some magic download on PSN that lets every PS3 play PS2 games.
2) Most people don't seem to understand the benefits of playing PS2 games on a PS3. Like someone else said: less clutter (one console, one set of controllers, one set of cables), more entertainment center space (if I hooked a PS2 up it would need to stay on the middle of the floor), and it upscales PS2 games (IE they look better than they'd ever look on a PS2).
How you could keep complaining that people need to get with the new-gen of HD gaming and then laugh at someone who wants to play older games with improved visuals is beyond me.
(PS, Nuno, that's incorrect. You probably heard that at a PS fansite or something.)
January 9th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
This is what I believe. I think Sony did need to take out the PS2 innards of the PS3 to save costs. Could they have added software emulation with about a 90% PS2 game play rate just like PS1 games? Or maybe even slowly add games by software updates like the 360 does? Of coarse, but then they would be cutting into their still selling PS2 console. You know, the one that is actually MAKING them money. Why lose money on both fronts? This is of coarse the reason. They want to maximize profits from their PS2 line while losing as little as possible from their PS3 line and in this case probably from their overall losses in the video game market.
January 9th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
I am impressed - your commentators are of lower quality than N4G's. That's pretty sad.
That said, good article. Interesting bit - I wonder what the per-system cost of the hardware there was.
Jefferson: Really? I... don't think that exists?
January 9th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
I was fortunate enough to receive a replacement PS3 with the emotion engine in it. This happen after my launch 20 gig gave up on me, I sent it for repairs and to my surprise Sony sent me a new one instead of repairing my old one. This was 2 months ago, so somehow I think Sony has launch systems on stock in case they need to send a replacement.
January 9th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
i am so glad that i bought my PS3 when i did, cause it allowd me to sell my PS2 and free some space around the Entertainment center. My PS3 is backwards compatable. I've read through alot of these user inputs and i just feel sorry for all those ppl who dont have backwards comp. I have to disagree with Scouse007. While selling my PS2 to someone i barely knew did free up space... i became heart broken. It was like giving a piece of my heart away to some stranger. I will forever miss you PS2. Same goes for the Nintendo 64 and Ocarina of Time. What a stupid mistake. I would suggest that gamers hang on to there consoles. 1 day down the road they wont regret it.
January 9th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
Lucky for me my ps3 is awesome it's an 80gig backwards compatible
came with mgs4 and rumble controller :S
January 9th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
@Skychrono
Most of these commentators ARE from N4G
January 9th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
I got the older 80gig. PS3 with mgs4 (amazing game btw) so I still play some ps2 games on them but even if my PS3 didn't have BC I wouldnt necessarily care as I'm already overloaded with the PS3's line-up which wont even pick up speed till killzone2 comes out. YAY for lots 'o' games.
January 12th, 2009 at 7:25 am
1) In response to Mel's comments on 01/09/2009:
People were complaining about backwards compatibility, and seeing as I noticed a "magic download", I thought that mentioning that might help a few people. I did not say it would work for everyone.
2) In response to Skychrono (01/09/2009):
I need to sign back on and find out exactly where it is - I don't remember where I saw it, but I know I did see it. I will check this evening, and post the location tomorrow morning.
3) In response to saminseattle (01/09/2009):
Yeah, I love games too. It seems alot of otherwise intelligent people have forgotten the hobby we all share a healthy interest in.
January 12th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
Go to the PlayStation Store-
1) Go to Add-Ons
2) Disc-Based Game Add-Ons
3) Scroll down to #34 "PS2 SYSTEM DATA"
Description: PS2 System Data allows PlayStation2 software requiring hard disk installation to be played on PLAYSTATION 3.
4) This is FREE
5) Cannot be used on 40 GB models
Evidently, this is for games requiring HDD installation - like FF or RE - I thought this software would allow you to play PS1/PS2 games on PS3 and it does, just not for ALL.
My mistake. I don't remember seeing anything similar, but I'll double check. My apologies to Skychrono, and thanks for checking behind me.
January 13th, 2009 at 8:01 am
Sorry guys, I was wrong - the only download I could find was for PS2 system data for HDD, not a firmware update-type thing that will allow you to play any PS2 game.
April 27th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
this is why i refuse to buy a PS3 anymore, I never wanted to because up til now they really haven't had anything other than MGS4 worth playing on that I couldn't get for my 360. I almost bought one a few months ago, but I'm glad I didn't. Backwards compatibility is not only a space saver but it's in my opinion one of those moves by a company that says "thanks for buying all of our games and supporting us up til this point, when you go buy the next gen systems coming out...you'll be able to play your old favorites without having to keep the only system around" throwing that away is like a spit in the face to the consumers, Sony was my favorite console company for a while but no more.
I can seriously say now without BC...I refuse to buy a PS3 until release of the FF VII remake is announced...hopefully with a bundle.
PS2 games are better than PS3 games anyway by far.
May 25th, 2009 at 5:40 am
You guys are all messed up ... all this hostility, can't wait for sony to put out PS4 so you guys can all go kill yourselfs to guarantee compatability with PS1 PS2 and PS3 ...
Sony says thank you and give us your money ...